2020, an unprecedented 10.9% of the GDP of the European Union was devoted to health care (Figure 5.3). Germany and France dedicated the highest shares to health at over 12% of their respective GDP. Sweden, Austria, the Netherlands and Belgium also spent over 11% of their GDP on health. The lowest shares of the overall economic output allocated to health were in Luxembourg (5.8%), Romania (6.3%), Poland (6.5%) and Ireland (7.1%). Across the whole of Europe, the United Kingdom and Switzerland were additional high spenders on health (with shares at around 12%), while Türkiye allocated the lowest share (4.6%). OECD report here are European health care spends as % GDP
It seems to me that all of us who have commented here have (or think we have) some ideas as to how to solve the issues. Does anyone know if a study has been made of the various health care systems in the rich/developed world where cost / clinical outcomes have been carefully evaluated? I think this wold be a good way to start, once we have real data we will know better how to proceed. I know that I am biased toward a free at point of use system with higher general taxes but that is just because I used to work in NHS and am a child of the 60s socialist states in Europe. In spite of this I also can see the problems you describe in Canada and I know the problems in UK; Scandinavia (with highertaxes) works ok but for how long g within creasing aged populations?
To avoid these inhetent biases, which we all have, we need good data before jumping on any particular system.
Regarding health care, a free at point of use system is the best. But,like the NHS in the UK, it gets underfunded (often for well intentioned reasons) and then decline is rapid. Your situation seems remarkably similar to the dental health system in UK. That system has deteriorated into different levels of care which depend on geography and spending power of the individual. I think that we must either pay more taxes or "limit free at point of use" procedures to things like preventative health, A and E and ICU etc and have a part payment system for non urgent elective procedures.
The way to prevent racism is by education and reduction of poverty in general, a much better use of tax dollars than these "media virtuous" actions.
Just some thoughts, how do others think about possible solutions.
Hiring Asian and Indian medical workers won't satisfy DEI type requirements in the US. Does it in Canada? As you know in the US, Asian males of all types are subject to more real discrimination that even us "white males". The DEI logic of systemic racism is not general racism type beliefs being opposed, like MLK did, but active support of racism for people whose long dead relatives were victims. With full DNA analysis the genetic leakage between groups may show some surprising results and a lot of hank-pankey going on. Even N. Korea only goes back 3 generation.
I hear ya Dr.... but you know, just try and say to fellow canucks we have to do something to correct the state of health care across Canada, and you will the most wild eyed parochial screams and screams of trying to "americanize" health care, So, things just get worse and worse and worse....
I get your references to the DIE activities, but perhaps your point would be stronger by noting current plans to dedicate 4 billion (at start) to national dental care. I certainly have no problem with a national dental care plan, but perhaps it is a bit like repairing your home stereo system when your roof really needs some serious attention....
But- if it makes you feel any better, just hang on another 50 years or so and its just not our problem anymore :)
On another note, I quite enjoyed your winter photographs.... we dont have any snow here in the GTA so I am experiencing it vicariously through you. Happily so I might add all the best oh, and hey, how about more about your galapagos trip. We've always dreamed of that adventure but time doesnt really permit
If you are able to find a place where this is not a problem, I suspect it will be in Alabama or Mississippi. Probably best to wait it out. Like so many attempts to do something desirable but new., it takes some fiddling to get an acceptable solution. Black and brown folks in this country have gotten the short end of the stick (if any end at all) for three hundred years. A few years of inconvenience while various things are tried hardly balances past injustices.
A similar lack of doctors in rural areas of the USA was recently reported in the Washington Post. That investigation found the main reason was that doctors (and their families) preferred to live in the cities or suburbs even if the pay in the rural communities was made higher. Perhaps obvious, but there is no easy answer.
I was born in Alberta and have lived in BC since 1996. Your description of PEI is not unlike the Alberta that I grew up in. Albertans looked for community and private solutions to sometimes major problems rather than expecting government to get involved, i.e. spend money and increase public servants. A former NDP activist made the observation that "Canadians love big government: they just don't want to stand in line to get it." It's especially true in the areas that effectively elect the government in any federal election, i.e. southern Ontario, urban Quebec, and the Lower Mainland of BC. Albertans have had to endure elections that were decided before the polls even closed in their province. The position that Alberta has taken on DIE programs, white liberal guilt initiatives, and s-called "gender" issues have been predictably criticized by the "Amen Corner" of academia, publicly-funded media, and various unions (especially the teacher's unions), etc. Something has to give in Canada as, outside of wartime, it's never been a country but a group of states with very different political and economic visions and expectations.
apprapos of this thread, I just read in John Dahl’s wonderful book this passage about Darwin’s grandfather:
“Erasmus Darwin was regarded as one of the finest physicians of his age with a reputation for generosity. Erasmus refused payment from his poorer patients and even provided them with food and blankets.”
Dahl, John. Darwin's Second Voyage: An Evolutionary Odyssey (p. 206).
Well, USA has exported to the world the philosophy of extreme capitalism. When you cannot kill public services, like health care (Medicare in the US, fort example), just starve them. You often condemn identity politics, but you seem to fail to realize that the biggest identity problem is capitalism as practiced in and exported by the USA. Republicans and right wingers cheer. The left is contemplating its navel.
AN AMERICAN SICKNESS by Dr. Elisabeth Rosenthal is a good explanation of how the American health care system got so screwed up — little by little, step by step. I’m lucky because I have probably the best insurance there is and I live in a big enough city that state-of the-art facilities and doctors. However, it ain’t cheap. It reminds me of that line from the song: Everything[s free in America, for a small fee in America.” I've always heard the Canadian system of national health is better, but maybe not-- I hope they can correct the faults.
2020, an unprecedented 10.9% of the GDP of the European Union was devoted to health care (Figure 5.3). Germany and France dedicated the highest shares to health at over 12% of their respective GDP. Sweden, Austria, the Netherlands and Belgium also spent over 11% of their GDP on health. The lowest shares of the overall economic output allocated to health were in Luxembourg (5.8%), Romania (6.3%), Poland (6.5%) and Ireland (7.1%). Across the whole of Europe, the United Kingdom and Switzerland were additional high spenders on health (with shares at around 12%), while Türkiye allocated the lowest share (4.6%). OECD report here are European health care spends as % GDP
It seems to me that all of us who have commented here have (or think we have) some ideas as to how to solve the issues. Does anyone know if a study has been made of the various health care systems in the rich/developed world where cost / clinical outcomes have been carefully evaluated? I think this wold be a good way to start, once we have real data we will know better how to proceed. I know that I am biased toward a free at point of use system with higher general taxes but that is just because I used to work in NHS and am a child of the 60s socialist states in Europe. In spite of this I also can see the problems you describe in Canada and I know the problems in UK; Scandinavia (with highertaxes) works ok but for how long g within creasing aged populations?
To avoid these inhetent biases, which we all have, we need good data before jumping on any particular system.
Regarding health care, a free at point of use system is the best. But,like the NHS in the UK, it gets underfunded (often for well intentioned reasons) and then decline is rapid. Your situation seems remarkably similar to the dental health system in UK. That system has deteriorated into different levels of care which depend on geography and spending power of the individual. I think that we must either pay more taxes or "limit free at point of use" procedures to things like preventative health, A and E and ICU etc and have a part payment system for non urgent elective procedures.
The way to prevent racism is by education and reduction of poverty in general, a much better use of tax dollars than these "media virtuous" actions.
Just some thoughts, how do others think about possible solutions.
Hiring Asian and Indian medical workers won't satisfy DEI type requirements in the US. Does it in Canada? As you know in the US, Asian males of all types are subject to more real discrimination that even us "white males". The DEI logic of systemic racism is not general racism type beliefs being opposed, like MLK did, but active support of racism for people whose long dead relatives were victims. With full DNA analysis the genetic leakage between groups may show some surprising results and a lot of hank-pankey going on. Even N. Korea only goes back 3 generation.
I hear ya Dr.... but you know, just try and say to fellow canucks we have to do something to correct the state of health care across Canada, and you will the most wild eyed parochial screams and screams of trying to "americanize" health care, So, things just get worse and worse and worse....
I get your references to the DIE activities, but perhaps your point would be stronger by noting current plans to dedicate 4 billion (at start) to national dental care. I certainly have no problem with a national dental care plan, but perhaps it is a bit like repairing your home stereo system when your roof really needs some serious attention....
But- if it makes you feel any better, just hang on another 50 years or so and its just not our problem anymore :)
On another note, I quite enjoyed your winter photographs.... we dont have any snow here in the GTA so I am experiencing it vicariously through you. Happily so I might add all the best oh, and hey, how about more about your galapagos trip. We've always dreamed of that adventure but time doesnt really permit
If you are able to find a place where this is not a problem, I suspect it will be in Alabama or Mississippi. Probably best to wait it out. Like so many attempts to do something desirable but new., it takes some fiddling to get an acceptable solution. Black and brown folks in this country have gotten the short end of the stick (if any end at all) for three hundred years. A few years of inconvenience while various things are tried hardly balances past injustices.
A similar lack of doctors in rural areas of the USA was recently reported in the Washington Post. That investigation found the main reason was that doctors (and their families) preferred to live in the cities or suburbs even if the pay in the rural communities was made higher. Perhaps obvious, but there is no easy answer.
So good health care does not come cheap.
Data is from OECD report.
I was born in Alberta and have lived in BC since 1996. Your description of PEI is not unlike the Alberta that I grew up in. Albertans looked for community and private solutions to sometimes major problems rather than expecting government to get involved, i.e. spend money and increase public servants. A former NDP activist made the observation that "Canadians love big government: they just don't want to stand in line to get it." It's especially true in the areas that effectively elect the government in any federal election, i.e. southern Ontario, urban Quebec, and the Lower Mainland of BC. Albertans have had to endure elections that were decided before the polls even closed in their province. The position that Alberta has taken on DIE programs, white liberal guilt initiatives, and s-called "gender" issues have been predictably criticized by the "Amen Corner" of academia, publicly-funded media, and various unions (especially the teacher's unions), etc. Something has to give in Canada as, outside of wartime, it's never been a country but a group of states with very different political and economic visions and expectations.
apprapos of this thread, I just read in John Dahl’s wonderful book this passage about Darwin’s grandfather:
“Erasmus Darwin was regarded as one of the finest physicians of his age with a reputation for generosity. Erasmus refused payment from his poorer patients and even provided them with food and blankets.”
Dahl, John. Darwin's Second Voyage: An Evolutionary Odyssey (p. 206).
Well, USA has exported to the world the philosophy of extreme capitalism. When you cannot kill public services, like health care (Medicare in the US, fort example), just starve them. You often condemn identity politics, but you seem to fail to realize that the biggest identity problem is capitalism as practiced in and exported by the USA. Republicans and right wingers cheer. The left is contemplating its navel.
AN AMERICAN SICKNESS by Dr. Elisabeth Rosenthal is a good explanation of how the American health care system got so screwed up — little by little, step by step. I’m lucky because I have probably the best insurance there is and I live in a big enough city that state-of the-art facilities and doctors. However, it ain’t cheap. It reminds me of that line from the song: Everything[s free in America, for a small fee in America.” I've always heard the Canadian system of national health is better, but maybe not-- I hope they can correct the faults.